Throwing A Curveball, The Spiritual Aspect Of Music, & How Imperfections Create Beauty

“It was sort of like an ‘aha’ moment for me to really incorporate more organic instrumentation and real instruments into the productions to give it that human emotional feel.” - Gryffin

Intro

In this episode, Zach talks with Gryffin, an electronic music producer from California known for his creativity and organic sound. They discuss the influence of Gryffin’s musical cousin (Dustin Kensure- Thrice), lessons learned from electrical engineering, and the connection between imagery and sound. Gryffin also shares how performance has changed during the pandemic and why his remix of ‘Burn’ (Ellie Goulding) changed his career. Other topics include the balance between serving your fans and yourself, the spiritual aspect of music, and why conducting over Zoom is as awkward as it sounds.

Key Takeaways

Music was a part of Gryffin before he was a part of music:

Gryffin grew up following his cousin Dustin’s career, attending shows and gathering knowledge about the music industry in a firsthand and personal way.
(4:52) “I don’t know if it motivated me to do music, but it definitely made me love it even more.” - Gryffin
Watching his cousin play helped Gryffin understand the importance of giving your all onstage.
Affirmation can lead to confidence and belief in yourself.
(6:08) “I saw that progression within my family, which was really cool to see them learn to come around to accept him for the talent that he had for music and to not choose a typical path as a career choice.” – Gryffin on the growing success of Thrice

Sometimes you have to do what you hate to discover what you love:

Gryffin pursued electrical engineering as a result of his father’s influence and his own indecision. He quickly discovered that it wasn’t the path for him.
Music was an escape from a busy schedule and an unfulfilling major.
(9:33) “That sort of work ethic and thought process from engineering did teach me that if I was going to get good at making music and producing music I had to put in work and work hard to get to where I needed to be.”- Gryffin
Pursuing his degree was humbling for Gryffin. It also taught him the importance of time management and how to say ‘no.’
(10:17) ”I always used to joke with him saying that ‘you know if you skimp on your work, you’re going to kill someone. If I skimp on my work the worst thing that happens is white-collar crime.’” – Zach on the consequences of different careers

Your performance is a reflection of your passion:

No matter the venue (live or remote), every show must be approached in the same way.
An active crowd can elevate you both mentally and physically as an artist.
(13:28) “It’s pretty cool to see artists still kind of get lost in their own music and kind of the vibe they’re creating even though there’s no live audience.” - Zach
The viewer’s response is an indication of the performer’s energy.

Music is more than music:

Our response to music takes place on a deeper level that incorporates imagery, not just sound.
The best songs create a feeling that represents a moment.
(18:29) “There needs to be something more with music that we don’t understand yet because it’s not just normal memory, it’s inducing something.” - Zach
Travis Barker and Machine Gun Kelly’s latest project recognizes the power behind nostalgia.
(19:09) “I feel like even during quarantine I’m noticing a lot of people and myself are listening to older catalogs of music, like back catalogs, trying to almost get back to a place before the pandemic. A place that feels comforting and familiar.” – Gryffin
Music brings us together in a way nothing else can.

Imperfection creates authenticity

Gryffin’s cover of ‘Burn’ by Ellie Goulding was the first time he incorporated guitar directly into the soundcard.
(21:40) “It was sort of like an ‘aha’ moment for me to really incorporate more organic instrumentation and real instruments into the productions to give it that human emotional feel.” - Gryffin
The fan reaction was overwhelmingly positive. Gryffin received a spike in interest on multiple streaming platforms and saw an increase in requests to use his songs.
Ellie Goulding’s label asked for permission to use Gryffin’s song as an official remix. She’s still promoting it multiple years later.
(23:53) “All of those signs were just so obvious to me that there was something definitely different and engaging on a fan level with that production style.” - Gryffin

Creativity is often a balance of priorities:

Artists should never be afraid to experiment with new ideas.
(25:37) “I know that sometimes it’s not going to pan out. In fact, more often than not the curveball ones haven’t amounted to the most commercially successful pieces of music and whatnot, but it’s really rewarding for me as a creative to be able to do that.” - Gryffin
Improving at your craft comes from the desire to always be better.
Your career is defined by what people like, not by what they don’t.
Gryffin has an insatiable desire to grow. Lately, he has been exploring orchestral arrangements and wants to work more with TV and film.
(27:25) “If you do the same thing of what’s totally expected it can retain your fan base and they can stay on, but they’re also growing and changing as people and consumers too. The world is constantly changing. I just never believe doing the same exact thing is going to create the same expected or better result.” – Gryffin

Collaborating during a pandemic is both unique and challenging

This year, Gryffin worked with composer, Max Aruj, to release ‘Gravity Deluxe,’ an expanded version of his critically acclaimed debut album. It features 2 remixes and 4 orchestral versions of some of the original songs.
(33:02) “We just pulled each other into each other’s world in like a really healthy and cool way where you can feel both of our influences on these pieces of work for sure.” – Gryffin
While pop often has a predictable structure, orchestral music is a blank canvas. The strength of ‘Gravity Deluxe’ comes from Gryffin and Max’s friendship, as well as the stark differences in their musical backgrounds.
Working remotely can create a unique environment where it’s difficult to harness the energy and essential connection between everyone involved.
(34:18) “It feels much less human, I don’t know. You just don’t quite get that same emotional connection, particularly with music.” – Gryffin on conducting over Zoom
Gryffin also collaborated with singer-songwriter, Audrey Mika, to release the song, ‘Safe With Me.’ (35:45) “It was one of those songs that I always loved and then it just grew on me. I felt such a stronger connection to the record as we were going through COVID and quarantine.”

Comfort is everything when it comes to recording

Familiarity is often a process, but it eventually leads to growth.
Producers are like therapists, listening to an artist to cultivate feelings and emotion.
(38:10) “There has to be no negativity or judgment in the room. You just have to be yourself because that is the best way to be able to convey emotion and get the best performance.” - Gryffin
Sometimes, you have to fake confidence as an artist or producer in order to get the best result.
(39:42) “It’s definitely about positive reinforcement, but then try and present it in a new angle.” – Gryffin
It’s essential to have allies on both sides of the aisle in order to change a difficult mindset.

When to listen to the voice in your head

Confidence is a force that must come from within.
(42:24) “As an artist you really have to be happy and proud of the work that you’re making without trying to think too much about the commercial success.” – Gryffin
Expectations can lead to pressure and will sometimes stunt creativity.
(43:01) “I think every artist needs to have that kind of innocent feel where you’re not overthinking things and you’re just kind of doing what feels right and what feels natural and flows out.”- Gryffin
Songwriting is a process that isn’t finished until the song is done. A great idea means nothing if it is never put into action.
Feedback is a crucial and necessary step in the pursuit of excellence. You’ll never know how something will be received until it’s been received. Positive or negative, someone’s response has value to your career.

You should always appreciate where you began

Gryffin’s White Panda/Mashup era was a critical step towards where he is now
Just because something is successful doesn’t mean that it’s creatively fulfilling. On the flip side, just because something is fulfilling doesn’t mean that it will be successful.
(45:23) “It laid the groundwork for me and gave me the confidence to pursue music and that was invaluable to me.” – Gryffin
The separation between White Panda and Gryffin was deliberate. It was important to Gryffin that his new project stands on its own without any additional publicity or exposure. He wanted the music to speak for itself.

Success is in the details

Newer artists must be willing to seek out advice when they need it. The industry is full of complicated contracts and people willing to take advantage of you if they have the chance.
(47:20) “Surround yourself with people that you really trust and feel are looking out for what’s best for you.” – Gryffin
Engineering, production and performance are fundamental parts of who Gryffin is as a performer and as a person.
A good work ethic combined with passion is the key to understanding your potential.
(49:03) “It doesn’t even feel like a job to me really. It’s just something I genuinely love doing.” – Gryffin
Music has helped Gryffin know himself better, and in a way, that in itself is a success