“I don’t ask myself ‘What book do I want to write next?’ I ask myself, ‘Who do I want to help millions of people learn to think like?’”- Eric Jorgenson

Full Episode On YouTube

Intro

In this episode of Auxoro, Zach hosts product strategist and author Eric Jorgenson in a conversation that stretches from the power of weightlifting to the power of familial influences to the power of a beautifully constructed sandwich! Author of the wildly popular “Alamanack of Naval Ravikant: A Guide to Wealth and Happiness,” Eric shares what he learned while compiling his exhaustive compendium of thoughts from the man behind one of the most popular Twitter accounts in the world. Culled from a deep trove of social media, podcast interviews and essays, the Almanack curates years of Naval Ravikant’s compelling insights and evolving principles. In addition to his writing projects, Eric is a product strategist and founding team member at Zaarly and also an occasional Angel investor.

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Key Takeaways

The emergence of the Clubhouse application.

Arrival on the scene and potential impacts.
As differentiated from traditional podcasts.
“It’s rarely the best version of the person (interviewed) but it’s fresh and exciting.” -Eric (6:55)
Types of conversations happening with people across silos.
Live on Clubhouse – weird and spontaneous events!

The Almanack of Naval Ravikant:

How Eric got involved with Naval Ravikant as a young, aspiring entrepreneur.
Startup building and investing evolved into principles/philosophical points of view.
“Each sedimentary layer that Naval has put out over the last decade of things he has gotten interested in has been interesting to me and I’ve followed along.” -Eric (10:44)
The Knowledge Project and other diffuse Ravikant insights were at risk of getting lost, which prompted Eric to gather the wisdom in his almanack.
“It’s hard to dedicate a lot of time to something unless I see something of myself that I either am or want to be.” -Zach (12:22)
What it was about Ravikant’s depth and perspective that so attracted Eric.
“I think Naval for me embodies and brings together a few different interests ... (He) brings together some of the big, fundamental cross-disciplinary thinking.” -Eric (12:52)

The ways in which Eric has been most affected by writing the “Almanack of Naval Ravikant.”

There’s something inherently valuable in overcoming a challenge or goal.” -Eric (16:02)
Putting together a giant conceptual jigsaw puzzle gave Eric a fluent vocabulary with which to express Naval’s principles.
Eric also takes pride in making an enduring contribution to the conversation.
Naval on His Shoulder: How the thinker’s ideas have come to permeate Eric’s thinking and decision-making on a daily base.
The implications of influence and challenges to give credit where it’s due when the roots of so many insights derive from something or somewhere else.
Seeking the approval of heroes: The influences (and risks) of emulating others.
“We have to be aware that anybody we look up to is fundamentally different from us in a ton of ways that we can’t appreciate. Their lived experience and set of talents is different enough that we have to know where to learn from them and when to trust our own instincts.” -Eric (22:42)
“Finding your own voice and leaning into your limitations is where you break out to that next level, once you’ve mastered what (your heroes) have to teach.” -Eric. (20:17)
“The more sources and influences you have, that’s almost a proxy for originality.” -Eric (24:45)
Marrakesh, Morocco, as a forward-thinking creative influence.

Outside influences Eric has incorporated that might seem otherwise unrelated.

How specific insights can evolve out of literature, story-telling and other unexpected contexts.
“I’m much more of a generalist than a specialist. I like to read broadly and pull in resources from all across different disciplines, different points in history, hopefully different cultures. And in each your point of entry is different.” (27:36)
“All great stories start in a familiar place and take you through an unknown place and deliver you back to an original place.” -Eric (28:01)
George St. Pierre’s generalist strategy for putting it all together in order to become a mixed martial arts champion.

Weight Lifting and the meaning of new mental models that have resulted.

A bit about the evolution of UFC and MMA through the years.
Protocols and elements for doing an all-out program.
- Workouts.
- Diet.
- Weighing food and being precise to the calorie.
- Recording, measuring and tracking all data.
“It is so helpful to see and feel physical versions of the compounding, long-term effort and the results of the daily grind.” -Eric (35:03)
“You turn yourself into a computer and program: Here’s your diet, here’s your sleep, here’s your workout, here’s your vitamins. Do this!” -Eric (36:13)
Seeing the results from a zealous and committed routine demonstrates momentum and velocity.
Self-knowledge regarding one’s capacity sets the bar in terms of where your new fitness default should be.
“Not only am I lifting weights because I want to look better and get stronger and be sexier or whatever your goals … You can also keep adjusting the inputs based on what’s working for you.” -Zach (38:04)

Lessons Eric believes apply anywhere in your life.

Showing up every day.
Doing the work.
Accepting that whatever you’re doing, you’ve got to do it for a long time.
“Success comes from commitment over a long period of time and changing expectations. If you’re expecting to get a six-pack in a week, it’s not going to happen.” -Eric (40:08)
We often overestimate what can be done in a year and underestimate what can be done in a decade. Staying with it is everything.
“People expect to be shredded in a month. Probably that’s not going to happen, but you can be in 10 months. And that’s not a long time, either.” -Eric (40:38)
“Sometimes it’s just about focusing on yourself and getting to that next workout or sometimes even that next set or rep.” -Zach (41:30)
Applying Jeff Bezos’s “Regret Minimization Framework.”
Projecting yourself forward and considering what you’re least likely to regret.
The framework works on a day-to-day basis when applied to things like completing a workout, calling a friend, going for a walk.
“Even though I might not feel like it, when I’m done evidence shows that I’m in a better-off place.” -Zach (43: 45)

The Bobiverse.

Basic overview of the series of sci-fi books
It’s just kind of a fun, interesting version of a thought experiment that is fun to read, makes you curious and kind of breaks your frame as far as being a human on the planet going about your daily life.” -Eric (45:40)
The books are similar in some ways to a real-time strategy game with resources, skills, talents and challenges.
What science fiction offers readers and what Eric gets out of the genre.
“Sometimes sci-fi can almost will a technology into existence by making a great case for it … It’s almost like concept art for technologists.” -Eric (48:01)
Sci-fi as fertile ground for important innovations and groundbreaking concepts, like Oculus.

Virtual Reality and Dreams.

Eric would love to see the design development of immersive learning tools.
Neurolink technology and what it means to have programmable brain hardware.

Rules of the Road for Recording Evolving Principles and Insights

What can people do to curate content and ensure their evolving thoughts and principles are accessible?
“The first thing is to be prolific. Put a lot out there. Make it honest. Make it helpful.” -Eric (56:20)
Thoughts and principles like Ravikant’s are often articulated only through multiple iterations and evolving versions.
Don’t be afraid to create lots of content – and keep it widely available.
Interact with unfamiliar thinkers and interviewers, who will invariably draw out different angles and perspectives
Thoughts and opinions are going to evolve and can be catalogued as you adapt and arrive at new core beliefs.

Has Eric ever been “embarrassed” into making a good decision?

Shame is a great motivator for working out.
When you stack rank people, they want to climb. And when you show them how to climb – and beat the person in front of them – they’re going to work really hard to do it.” -Eric (1:02:39)
Ego as the enemy is a stoic principle, but the powerful fear of shame drives powerful outcomes in athletic or other arenas.
Embarrassment evokes very strong reactions among people who either run from it or work hard to resolve it.
Shame can be a powerful tool in some contexts or for some individuals, but can also be extremely damaging and has to be used judiciously.
You can really scar people if you abuse the power (of shame) or use it in the wrong way. Shame makes you shut down if you don’t overcome it.” -Eric (1:05:10)
“Different people can react differently to the same embarrassing or shameful statement …” -Zach (1:05:37)

How Eric approaches thought, structure and the flow of ideas.

Why the “Naval Ravikant Almanack” has resonated. (Hint: People find it accessibly organized.)
Eric compiled the alamanac by simply getting out of the way and letting Ravikant’s thoughts speak for themselves.
“I don’t ask myself what book do I want to write next. I ask myself, ‘Who do I want to help millions of people to learn think like.’ ” -Eric (1:09:44)

The powerful influence/example of Elon Musk

Elon Musk would be a great almanack subject because “you can’t deny the impact he has had and will have on humanity.”
Deadlines aren’t everything. Just ask Elon Musk
“Deadlines aren’t as much of a hard predictor of success to other people as they seem to ourselves.” -Zach (1:13:09)
“(Musk) has done a number of things that were considered impossible timeline-wise, and complexity-wise and schedule-wise by the current pace of industry.” -Eric (1:14:32)
“It’s that combination of instinct for speed and getting started and the ‘First Principles’ piece.” -Eric (1:14:44)

Eric is passionate about the art of the sandwich and here’s why.

“It’s a meal in your hand and you’ve got salt, fat, acid, heat – all the contrasts, textures and flavors!” -Eric (1:15:38)
What are the prime elements essential to a stellar sandwich?
- A mix of compelling ingredients.
- The right temperature.
- Ingredients that contrast (e.g. creamy mozzarella and crunchy lettuce).
For his last sandwich ever, Eric would order a classic Italian.
Zach is inspired to branch out from his time-honored, beloved PB&J!

How Eric’s view of love has evolved over recent years.

At some point you graduate from thinking about love as what makes me happy personally into building a family.” -Zach (1:18:00)
Early relationships are figuring out what works for you individually but views change as you evolve and experience different contexts.
“You don’t get to choose your mother, but you do get to choose your son’s mother.” -Zach (1:18:28)
Zach shares a bit of his evolution in terms of what he looked for in love as a young college student versus the things he seeks in relationships today.

The hidden influence that drives Eric and has been a source of inspiration?

The culture of his family and his parents’ ethos and values.
“It’s one of those things that kind of feel like water. It’s just in all of us (siblings) – our own version of that – and it comes out in ways that partly define who we are.” -Eric (1:22:26)
Norms and habits within families – loved or hated – make for interesting conversational fodder!